They discuss Grey's work on map hacking, which involves creatively manipulating and reimagining maps to expose hidden structures and inequalities in our cities.

Grey argues that maps are not objective representations of reality but are shaped by the values and interests of their creators. He believes that by actively engaging with maps and reimagining them in new and creative ways, we can gain a better understanding of the social, political, and economic forces that shape our cities; "Maps can be a way of understanding the world, but they can also be a way of changing it." (27:20)

Grey shares some examples of his map hacking projects, such as his "Discomfort Zone" map, which visualizes the racial and economic segregation of Los Angeles, and his "Maps of Power" series, which explores the political and economic power structures that shape our cities; "The goal of map hacking is to make visible the invisible, to expose the power structures and the biases that underlie the maps that we use." (11:10)

Paffendorf and Grey also discuss the potential risks and limitations of map hacking, such as the danger of reinforcing existing biases and the difficulty of reaching a wider audience beyond the urbanist and artistic communities. Despite these challenges, they both believe that map hacking has the potential to be a powerful tool for social and political change.

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